A series of interviews with artists and mentors included in the Rail2dance project, interviewed by Ana Lorger during their Kick of Residency in Ljubljana, September 2022.

MARIA NAIDU

My name is Maria Naidu, I am a Swedish dancer and I live in the South of Sweden in the city called Malmö. It is the third largest city in Sweden. It is a border city, you could say, even though there is water between Denmark, which is the neighboring country, and us. However, it also affects the city. It is traditionally a working city or industrial city but it has changed in the last 20 years. We have university now, so it is interesting how the population has changed, it has of course changed the feeling of the city. But it is still one of the most culturally diverse city in Sweden. I think about 85 percent of the world's languages are spoken in Malmö. I talk about this because this is part of the reasons why I chose to live in Malmö. And for me it is the only Swedish city that I can live in because of that cultural diversity. I decided to become a dancer when I was six years old and before that I've taken some kids dance classes but I decided then, when I was six years old, that I was going to become a dancer. I did not actually take dance class until I was 12, then I took it regularly. I started with education when I was 16 years old.

… AND HER THOUGHTS ABOUT DANCING IN PUBLIC SPACE

There are all kinds of street performances (in Malmö), definitely mostly music and I think that traveling musicians go from country to country, city to city. For dance, this is not so usual. We have had dance festivals that were only outside and I was part of the organization. But the main organizer was dance company Memory wax and they have strong ties with Cuban dance company Danza Teatro Retazos. Many inspirations came from that project, and we did it at a very beautiful place for recreation. It was successful and people loved it. There are a lot of people that go there to engage in leisure activities on a sunny day, it is located by the water. So we definitely met new audiences or met people that we would not normally see in the theater.

… HER FEELINGS ABOUT RAIL2DANCE PROJECT

I find this project, Rail2Dance, interesting for numerous things. But if we think about choosing the place… We are choosing places with a lot of traffic, places that are built even specifically for getting on the bus, getting on the train, getting on the ferry to go somewhere or coming from somewhere.

I have performed in those places before and I found them as an interesting challenge. Usually they are very large and for the moving person it is fantastic to be there, to have all this space. There is already activity, there is already in a way choreography, even if it is not planned. We navigate as people. I ask myself: How can I not disturb the flow, how can I just add something to that? I am thinking simply: People are also waiting in those places. When we wait nowadays, we just pick up our phone and we look at the phone. Before the phone, you could rest your eyes on public art, that’s why we have public art. I am curious about whether this dance could be something where someone could rest their eyes on? Get a moment of meditation maybe. That would be for me using material, not just material, but ideas and principles that I use in another type of work in another type of public space-, which is in churches. Specifically Lund doom Church, which is also a huge space, people come there for specific reasons. For example, they come because they want to do religious rituals or be part of religious rituals or they come there as tourists. For a few years I was developing a practice that heightens the experience of the space. And this I know because I also have been doing this for years and I also asked the people and they have written down things. And I am wondering if maybe I can take fragments of that and see how practice in churches can be adapted to the Rail2dance project… Especially during summer, because I've spent hours there, and energy is so loaded like it would burst.

LAURA CHAMBERS

My name is Laura Chambers, I am from Finland. I’ve danced for my whole life, as an amateur I was involved in many different types of projects, all kinds of performance, whether in theater or in public. As a professional I feel like I am still kind at the beginning of my career.

….AND HER THOUGHTS ABOUT DANCING IN PUBLIC SPACE

I’ve done dance interventions, not in a while actually, but when I was younger, we used to do it. It was popular: before a big show in a theater you would do a flash mob type of thing as a promo or you would improvise on the street somewhere. In my hometown in Finland we would do that, yes…

Public space… Hm. It is a place where anyone is allowed to be and of course there are some norms that we sort of observe or we assume that we should behave in a certain way. But it is not a law… So it is kind of an interesting space, what can you do with it? It is an open question mark really. There are also all types of people doing all kinds of different things. You never know what you're gonna see, so I think as an artist; it is just very interesting because of all the possibilities.

…AND HER FEELINGS ABOUT RAIL2DANCE PROJECT

First of all, it is international. I love just being in an international environment, I love getting to know people from different countries and other artists from other countries. Also just the whole idea of being part of the research and part of the performance is interesting to me. So we don’t have set choreography that we have to just learn and perform. It is more like that the whole group creates everything together and we don’t know what the main goal is yet. I enjoy that research type of projects that take you on a journey.

We’ve done two day of interventions so far, I think on the first day my absolute favorite was when all 6 of us performers walked in a straight line, very slowly across the bridge for 20 minutes. It was kind of a slow motion walking and there was enough space for people to cycle and walk in between and there was no purpose or goal. We were just doing it. And a lots of people stopped and watched the whole thing, even though nothing else happened, we just walked and then some people came and said “Wow, that was amazing.'' So for me this is always nice, it is just something unexpected, somebody just walking by finds it surprisingly fun to watch. I enjoy bringing joy.

I’ve been positively surprised by how many people have reacted or interacted. Like when we did hand holding, and there was an empty hand at the end of the line. Lots of people came and grabbed the hand, even though there was no explanation. I was surprised by that.

You create connection, some sort of sense of togetherness, community, I think people, when they interact, they bring their own story to it. So for example, on the first day one of us was sitting on a chair and there was another chair empty. A lot of people came and other people were watching and wondering what was happening. And somebody said to us: “Oh, are they on a public date?” Which was not at all what was happening; we have not even thought of that. So I think people bring their own narrative to the picture which is fun.

SASCHA PAAR

My name is Sascha, I am an Austrian dancer, I work currently in a theater and opera house in Chemnitz. I would consider myself really as a person who is interested in different aspects of creating choreography. I am coming from a part of dance, which is very physical and dance based. There is no time to think about the process or give emphasis on the process but more about the results. I try to find out what I am as an artist. In the theater I just get information. But I also want to experience being a person that is more involved in the process.

… AND HIS THOUGHTS ABOUT PUBLIC SPACE AND DANCING

Actually, it is interesting because public space is something very normal, we walk, we do our stuff, we go from one start to another end. But we do not explore what is possible. We just walk and sit, but there are so many other things. You suddenly can interfere in the public space and try to create something unusual, which is nice.

Now I tried to create things that are very unusual in space. Normally you sit on the bench… But what if you are under the bench or laying on the bench. So how does it affect public space differently? I try to push the idea like a child, because at a certain point, when we are switched into an adult person, we do not see all the opportunities and possibilities anymore, also in life in general, We are afraid or educational... I try to switch my head off and think like a child.

…AND HIS FEELINGS ABOUT RAIL2DANCE PROJECT

I think it is an amazing opportunity. First of all, I did something similar in Germany, but as long as I understand the German language it has a very different vibe when you are in the country where you don’t speak the language. When you go out in the urban space, you cannot really understand what people think, or if there is a threatening moment or something interesting… I am happy that I meet people that are here, creative people.

We held hands on a very busy street and we tried to get other people to join us. It was a nice experience because your energy as a person has to be very welcoming and open otherwise people will not join. However, we managed somehow that people joined, our line got longer and longer, and it would be interesting to see how long it would get…. It was really easy and sensitive.

ALICIA PAULINA OCADIZ ARRIAGA

My name is Alicia, I am originally from Mexico and I have been living in Slovenia for the past four years. I am a professional dancer, I have been dancing for the last 20 years, before that I did gymnastics. I have been moving for my whole life and I love it.

… AND HER THOUGHTS ABOUT PUBLIC SPACE AND DANCING

For me public space means a space that we share in order to call ourselves a society. It is important to interact. From the very small things, that energy that I put when I am on the streets. We charge the space with each of us. Interaction goes from the very small things, the way I look or I do not look to the people, how I open or close myself. In a performatic sense interaction is to play and to magnify. To research how much we are able to touch each other in a respective way, just to feel that another human is there and you are willing to share this place. Because you are doing it anyway. When we are in the same restaurant, same place, we can look at each other or care for each other or not.

You go back or my aim is to go back to the very simple stuff: Collectiveness, contribution, group work, awareness of the body, spaces, common energy. Common goal. That is important for me.

I am interested in the interaction with the public, I develop my own projects that are leading me in a similar direction. They are different from the theater that I also love very much. But I like different spaces and different ways of interacting or presenting things, where you don’t just sit and watch. You learn how we can communicate with each other.

…AND HER FEELINGS ABOUT RAIL2DANCE PROJECT

I did public interventions. However, these are very different, because it is really about the personality of the society. In what people are used to do or not. I was talking with my colleagues and we agreed that in Latin America many things that we normalize here would be performative. People dancing on the street in Mexico is not something to look at because it is not something strange. Or people singing a song loudly… it is way more open in a certain sense. Here we have certain behaviors that we consider as unappropriated. So it is different… I had a project in Slovenia called “Running and dancing” and we ran and danced at the same time and some people loved it. We were dancing in silence, we had headphones on and were doing it in Tivoli. Yes, some people loved it and some people got offended, because we were changing the environment.

ALJA LACKOVIĆ

My name is Alja. I am 27 years old and I have been dancing for quite a long time. Recently I am also dealing with what dance is, what is performance, how can I use my body not just as a moving tool but also with voice. And I am also interested in how to get a new audience that would watch contemporary dance.

… AND HER THOUGHTS ABOUT PUBLIC SPACE AND DANCING

The most interesting part is the question that repeats all the time: how to get new audiences and how to get people to watch you. Linked to that question is also a question of what art really is. How do we perceive it? I am interested in these two questions. I am hoping to find new answers. I already found some answers, but I think I will have a clearer vision about the art by just doing it.

Public spaces are so complex to define. I would usually say that public places are spaces where many people find each other at the same time. And when you intervene in that… it is funny, even if you just observe people, if you take this moment and stop and put yourself as an observer, you can see that interventions are happening all the time, in the street, shop, bus, everywhere you go. As a dancer, you start to understand that maybe everything is choreography. Everything is choreography, but is it art? I do not know, but for sure, we are moving all the time. This is interesting also from the position of being an observer or being a participant. I would like to find a new answer to these questions.

…AND HER FEELINGS ABOUT RAIL2DANCE PROJECT

I have been doing a couple of street theater projects, where we learned specially how to approach people. Because people on the streets are not the same people that go to the theater. People that buy tickets to see a theater piece prepare themselves to see something. They know they will experience something. While people on the street do not, they have their things to do. For me it is interesting when you interrupt their paths. For example, yesterday it was very powerful because we came to the street with this question: “Yes, we can do a dance in public space or square, but how can we achieve that people will join us? How can we build something as a community? To do something together.” Yesterday was a beautiful moment. We were just holding hands, standing in the line in the busiest street in Ljubljana with the wish or goal that people would join us. When they joined, they immediately came up with the question, who are you and what are you doing? The answer is very simple: “We are holding hands in the middle of the street, Have you ever done something like that?” Answer was no, which makes you reflect how simple things can affect and achieve a totally different perspective. Somebody that was just going for a walk or was hurrying to get to the shop, he or she suddenly stopped and held hands on the street. Life goes on. The same goes with the actions when we were lying down on the main square. People were curious; they wanted to know why we are doing this instead of just doing it. As a society, we need to break with what we encrypted in ourselves.

PATRIK RIIPINEN

I am from Finland, I’ve been dancing for around 19 years. It changes a lot about what I am interested in, depending on the year. Now I am interested in the musicality and personality of the movement. I do quite physical stuff myself, like physical attributes and physical movements as a dancer. I am interested in how people can use their body skillfully and physically and what is possible as a human physic. When you do enough training, what is possible to achieve? I am really busy with this kind of thing to teach and also for my own practice to find a way to advance as a physicality wise and also as a body mind connections.

… AND HIS THOUGHTS ABOUT PUBLIC SPACE AND DANCING

I enjoy being out of norm in my daily life. I also want to break these patterns into how people may behave or look. I might live on the edges to see how people react to me. Even in my daily life I sometimes look completely normal but sometimes I might be very extreme compared to the normal population. Also as a performer it can be similar. Also here, we try to connect the consumer world with the contemporary artistic world. It will help people to relate, to be close to them as possible, and to be normal as possible. Also in the end to go to the extreme, to see what is also possible. I think it is more extreme when I am performing and doing something in art than in my daily life. But it is definitely something that I am considering and it is in my mind in my daily life, when I am living in society with humans.

…AND HIS FEELINGS ABOUT RAIL2DANCE PROJECT

This is the first time that I do any project with the theater that hired me. I just moved back to Finland one year ago. So I am quite new in getting to know people in my city there. I also looked for many places in Europe to move and nobody invited me or I didn’t feel I wanted to move. So I somehow ended up in Finland because I come from there. I do not think that will be the end place for me. But for now it is a place where I feel comfortable to be. My friend told me about this project, I did not know a lot about it, I just knew that there would be other countries involved and some kind of touring included. I was open to it. I did not have so much information. I was just like: “It can’t be bad!” I will see if it’s for me. And I am enjoying it.

I mostly did this kind of stuff in Finland and a little bit in Austria. It is different how people are. But there are also a lot of tourists around. Nice days affect how people can be quite positive about it. It is definitely a matter of seeing, similar to what I explained before. I like to go out of norm, to explore or expose myself for people to see. So not to try to hide behind the masks. When people in the street take the challenge, throw themselves into it, and feel like: “It doesn’t matter if people see me now. I want to do this.” This is somehow very important, to give people a chance to do something that they would not do without us. To express themselves also.

ANNA PEHRSSON

I’m Anna, I am Swedish and I have been in the dance field for 25 years. Both in companies and as freelance dancer. Since 2016 I have also done my own work but I continue to dance for others as well. I also have a production of visual arts and interesting writings.

… AND HER THOUGHTS ABOUT PUBLIC SPACE AND DANCING

For me the public space is a place where we are allowed to create community in different ways. Or a place, where we can be together as humans, animals and things. This is in a way different from a private sphere such as a family. I think it is interesting nowadays that these possibilities to meet as a community are less and less. Also in my country we have restrictions on who we can meet and where.

Why bring dance to the public sphere? It is a wonderful thing, if a person that does not have access to art because of socio economic background, can see art there, for free, we succeeded. If we get one person to dream about the body like that, I think it would be wonderful!

Recently I have started to be interested in arranging different things. I have a project where I as a choreographer invite others to do interventions. It is more like a site-specific project. I have a couple of them and they might come later. It is interesting to share and work in this environment, to see what this could do to those things. I was always interested in the installation kind of work, which does not follow the classical theater dramaturgy with climax and everything… But rather you pull something out and you start to see details. I think in public spaces these types of invitations work very well. It is a lot about persistence.

…AND HER FEELINGS ABOUT RAIL2DANCE PROJECT

Yesterday when we were holding hands and there was a person outside of it, at the rear end, tried to invite somebody new to join. And I did not expect that anyone would join. But actually people did, it was beautiful. I started to feel such a strong movement, when we came together and shared something together. Very simple like holding hands together for some time. Feeling of community just for a short time. I felt like people here are quite open to experiencing it. In some countries, people are more chatty and direct, in other places, people are more quiet and they observe. For me neither is better than the other, I really feel it is a way people take part of it as they feel, as it is good and suits them.

ANTHONY MISSEN

My name is Anthony Missen, I am from Manchester, England. I have danced since I was 14 years old, really in secret at the beginning because it wasn’t something to do as a boy where I grew up. I started dancing professionally around about 23 years ago. So I worked with different companies and then I created my own dance company in Manchester. Now we have the international dance company Chameleon. We make a mix of works for theaters, for outdoor context, in prisons, museums, galleries and libraries. And we do a lot of participatory work, we work with kids, adults, young people, older people, in mental health secure units, we basically dance wherever can be useful. My interest is the positive impact that dance can have on people’s lives. It is all about well-being for me. There are so many things about it that can be so valuable for people. It helps to reveal the stories, or deal with emotion or just to have some physical trigger to get inside the bodies. I think it is like a good gateway to express and kind work and use stuff. So we use loads of different ways.

… AND HIS THOUGHTS ABOUT PUBLIC SPACE AND DANCING

We can create things there to engage people or to entertain them, or to tell a story. Something that we can have choreographed so that people can observe or be entertained by or look at in a different way. It is about human relationships, maybe they can relate to their own experience. Or they can kind of physically understand, you are mirroring your own fire and this thing that you will see people engage with emotionally in front of you. The same things are firing you from a biological perspective. You can understand and read it, if it comes from a place of honesty.

That is on the one hand. But obviously there are completely different ways to think about dance or movement: to empower or exercise. The thing we do in these public spaces, part will be choreographed, part of it is looking at how to find ways for people to participate or interact. On one hand it can be a very intimate experience, and on the other hand it is kind of an open space for more people to observe.

And we can do that in lots of ways, we can play games that people can observe or understand, or we can create things to start to direct or lead people more specifically. There are mountains of ways where we can go in and that's what rich and exciting is. This huge black canvas we can use. You know, people go about day-to-day business; they will generally walk on the same street to go to work, on the same bus, same train. And it is kind of transient, you have to go from A to B and think a lot of time you don’t even notice what surrounds you. And the beauty of doing these things is. It really invites you to spend the time to see what is there and also to see it in a completely different way. This kind of place making is a snazzy term that people use around policy. Actually, things like this can take place. It helps you to reimagine your environment and also what’s possible. With some experiments we are doing, that can be such a simple thing, but because they are not normal or typical you would never think to do them. You probably would not do them by yourself. As soon as there is a platform that enables some kind of permission, then you feel safe and it is just okay just to go. “Ah, okay, I want to do that as well!” It creates nice experiences in very, very different ways. That is what excites me about what we are doing.

…AND HIS FEELINGS ABOUT RAIL2DANCE PROJECT

One thing that inspired and surprised me was a random thing we did. We were just standing in the line, holding hands and inviting people to join. And I wasn’t sure anyone would, and then the line grew and grew and it was magic, beautiful! People just kind of understood that’s what we are doing. Even people were asking us what is the purpose of it, why we are doing it, it doesn’t even need an explanation, because we want, because we can do it. People want and crave connection, or physical contact, wherever it is, just some way to be… We spend so much of our lives online or separate in different ways. I think it is part of the human condition to want to share. It is trying to discover new ways to bridge the gap between people. And not threatening, very open, take it or leave it, you can stand on the side and also enjoy what you see. Very simple things, but beautiful. Also having people lying down on the square. People got it straight away. We put a sign down, an invitation, and to see people do that, the ordinarily would not do that. It was lovely! A nice thing to do.

The idea around the project is partly about mobility, it is partly looking about sustainable touring, kind of slow touring in a way, because it is all around public transport. But more than that, the really important thing is finding new ways to engage with audiences and to create interventions in public spaces. What’s beautiful about this is that it allows space for a loads of experimentations, yes, I have lots of ideas and experiences, but I am also creative so I can leave all of that, and then just can go: “What is possible, let’s play, what might work, what might not work…” All the dancers are contributing their ideas and we have loads of different experts from different parts of Europe that are working in very different ways. We kind of invite them and see their ideas for testing and seeing what works and what doesn’t. We can use all of these things and try to develop this into something much bigger. Once we have all the pieces, all the fragments, all the little legal blocks, we can make a route into the city. This will change from place to place. Obviously, now we are where we are, in Ljubljana, which is beautiful and architecturally very rich also, with amazing features, sculptures, things that you can visually respond to.00 All the places we go to are quite stack, bare and can provide very different but it means you can work very specifically, where you are. We can paint the town how we would like to. I think that makes a lovely experience for random passers-by. I created a lot of outdoor performances, but they were scheduled, they were set on time, so people know. Passers-by also happen across it, and have looked at it, said oh, wow, that’s really interesting, and then they stayed and watched it. I think it is also wonderful to have things that are hidden in random little pockets, it could be as simple as some bodies in a sculpture that you just wouldn’t expect there, it’s kind of out of place, it will make you wonder, question and reimagine… The same as when you look at the piece of artwork, you can stare at it for hours, a painting, and make your own stories, ideas, and interpretations. It's a big invitation to go beyond what is possible.

BUSH HARTSHORN

I’ve just recently retired from working within institutions. I was artistic director, director of three or four dance and theater institutions since 1990 in England, Belgian and Holland. Throughout all this time between 2010 and 2011, I qualified as a coach. I use a lot of coaching ethnic in the work I do with artists. I was always working with artists along the way but most of my time and energy, effort was into curating the program, managing the stuff, managing the building or that kind of thing. Before 1999 I was a performer and theater maker. Since I retired, I have delivered workshops called giving and receiving feedback. I work as a coach and mentor for individual artists. I came here to give a workshop and some tools that dancers may use while they are doing site-specific tools.

About my workshops: I asked dancers to select the place, where they felt some affinity with that place, space… Then we came back to the studio and then they drew the space. I send them back to space and ask them to take 10 minutes to write a description of where they were. Super concrete, no interpretations, no metaphors, nothing. You just write very concisely and concrete. Then you do the complete opposite. You don’t stop writing, it is a speed writing thing, you just write, write, even if you write 200 times the word “and”… You just do not stop writing. Then you come back and we go to each place where the people went to and people read what they have written. Each person said what was left out, I asked them what things were left out. Because people were drawing from memory, it shows you what was dominant for you in the space, which gives you an interesting objective position, and it is not dancing. We did not do dancing, we did drawing. Also this exercise about writing concrete… It is a way to get away from thinking. With this workshop, I shared some ideas to start with…

VITA OSOJNIK

I am doing my first solo now, even though I am already a senior citizen. I was working a lot with big groups, more abroad; in Slovenia you don’t have so much capacity. On stage, I was always interested in communication, big groups and relationships. Now I focus on my solo, which is also specifically interesting.

ABOUT HER WORKSHOP….

I give here practical examples and quick tools. What attracted me in street art is that there is a lot of good theory but it has to be transformed into very good tool practice. Whether you are a stage performer or street performer, you need a lot of physicality, a lot of strength and energy. Short movement intervals build these very fast through funny interventions so you don’t need to spend three hours per day for that…

Now we also opened our homes for dancers, some performances are starting in our apartments and they are perceived as public space. For me public space is every space that the public uses. Restaurant, galleries, shops. Usually my preference is to do some kind of demonstrative protest piece that sometimes infiltrates the crowd and sometimes not. I also did a lot of Ana Monro theater; we did many classical street pieces. Which is great because you get in contact with people that you do not get with the audience in the theater.

I see all people as movers; also, dancer is already a codified movement. I like to perform for regular people; I do not like to perform for narrow groups or just one specific field. We are learning so much from regular situations or movements. I never think about showing them something, because they already know it, we just lighten it, point it out or we just focus on something that is familiar. Even the stage pieces that I do. I play with people’s memories that they already have. I don’t like when we, as contemporary artists, are creating something people don’t understand. Because then we should not create it.